tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post9067131713963592406..comments2024-03-11T07:53:25.838-04:00Comments on Spirituality, Dreams and Prophecy: The False Belief of a Trinity of three beings: TRITHEISMDoug Webberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-49530474000195979342014-01-05T14:13:52.273-05:002014-01-05T14:13:52.273-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
Hello Lee, I ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br />Hello Lee, I perfectly agree, actually I understand where those ministers are coming from. They are bound by their doctrines. Among others, I have to be careful what I say, as it can lead to an outright and immediate rejection. With this blog I decided to go public. Always I go to scripture first, and Swedenborg last. I am visiting another church as a "guest", and periodically I will throw something out there to see the reaction. The teacher, who has attended several seminaries and probably studied the Bible 40 years, is beginning to get puzzled as to what my background is. The revelations of Swedenborg are somewhat like the inner sanctuary of the temple, but for the public the literal sense of the Bible is like the outer court.<br /><br />So, before delving into Swedenborg, its best to lay some ground rules as to how to discern whether a vision is from God or whether it is demonic. No demon can confess Jesus as Lord, which Swedenborg confirms, and Catholic exorcists confirm that reality as well. That topic, as well as xenoglossy, I have been reserving for another blog post, but I have been holding back on it as exorcisms are quite a negative subject (and a bit strange).<br /><br />Besides visions, the other big reservation I see out of others is the topic of extraterrestrials. Unfortunately, the public has been conditioned against it in the media by the CIA. I think I have taken care of that issue with that article on Epsilon Eridani, but still there will be resistance due to psychological conditioning (even I had trouble believing what I was reading). One's former religion also acts like a barrier of psychological conditioning. Swedenborg made the ironic comment one time that it was safe to reveal everything at this time, since everyone now is of a scientific materialistic mindset and would not believe it, thus they are not able to profane what is holy.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-21684758277445593472014-01-05T14:12:48.254-05:002014-01-05T14:12:48.254-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:
The Bible still...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br /> The Bible still has great power in the mind of the public. I'm not shy about putting Swedenborg out there. But if I really want to put some oomph behind a theological argument, it's best to do it by appeal to the Bible rather than by appeal to Swedenborg. Swedenborg is not generally seen as a spiritual authority outside of the Swedenborgian Church and movement. The Bible has much wider reach. I think it's perfectly defensible to read Swedenborg and put his ideas out there without specific reference to Swedenborg. The problem with it is that then people do not know where it is coming from, and cannot themselves go to the source. Though even there, according to Swedenborg, the Bible, and the Lord who is its divine Author, is really the source.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-53047061192732842552014-01-05T14:11:58.903-05:002014-01-05T14:11:58.903-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:
Oh, the 1...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:<br /><br /> <br />Oh, the 1,050 commandments are the detailed descriptions of the two summaries that you just mentioned Mr. Webber for all in the Kingdom of GOD not merely just ancient Israel. The 1,050 New Testament commandments as opposed to the Old Testament commandments which have been amended (so to speak) into what is now found in the New Testament and has been sealed with the book of Revelation being the final canonical book of the set.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-21507005256148799262014-01-05T14:11:15.061-05:002014-01-05T14:11:15.061-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:
Hello Lee. ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:<br /><br />Hello Lee. That is a bit funny. I heard about something similar in California, how some ministers will secretly read Swedenborg and make use of the knowledge in their sermons. Carl Jung read Swedenborg and made use of him in his psychology. The general public, I guess, is just not ready to hear about visions, unless its in the Bible, otherwise there is little discernment in spiritual matters.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-71925138325454484672014-01-05T14:10:34.371-05:002014-01-05T14:10:34.371-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
Not sure what...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br />Not sure what the 1050 commandments you refer to are, we can keep it simple and say one should follow the greatest commandment - Love the Lord, and the second, love your neighbor (Matt. 22:34-40) - which sums up all the commandments.<br /><br />But yes, everything spiritual does progress and ends up to have a physical manifestation. I think the way Jesus put it is that you shall know a man by the fruits that they bear. The way Swedenborg describes this is as "end, cause, and effect", or another way, "intention, thought, and outward action." We only see the outward effects or deeds, but can't always see the true inner intent.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-35311236075421129742014-01-05T14:10:02.666-05:002014-01-05T14:10:02.666-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:
Yes. The 1...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:<br /><br /><br />Yes. The 1,050 New Testament commandments. Everything spiritual and invisible has an eventual manifestation in time. Like JESUS "the son" (for instance) is the manifestation of "the eternal Father" in time. JESUS as "the Father" has always been, but only in time was manifest to man a bit over 2,000 years ago. The Holy Spirit of JESUS also was manifest in time from eternity past to us (as mankind) for the first time on the day of Pentecost.....right? Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-32822663564460222732014-01-05T14:08:59.431-05:002014-01-05T14:08:59.431-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
The intention...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br />The intention is important. For outsiders, it does more harm than good. But one should not look for external visible evidence to something that is spiritual and unseen. If one confesses, and transforms their life, that is evidence enough for the Holy Spirit. "For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart" (1 Sam. 16:7). "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" (John 20:29). The more important issue - for the New Church and Pentecostal church - should be two principles: that there is One God in one person, Jesus Christ, and that one should live according to the commandments.<br /><br />Xenoglossy - speaking in an actual foreign language - is rare but it does happen.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-71696804886167634032014-01-05T14:08:24.355-05:002014-01-05T14:08:24.355-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:
I actuall...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:<br /><br /> <br />I actually do speak in tongues although mostly in private and hardly for show, even though there may be some that could. In the church that i attend they teach that speaking in tongues is the VISIBLE EVIDENCE that one has been filled and continues to be filled with the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. As everything spiritual and eternal eventually gains a material manifestation in time and space. Concerning the man you talked about i will look him up he sounds interesting, so thanks for the heads up. Here is a study on what the doctrine that says that "pentecostal tongues" or "Christian glossalilia" is the evidence of the Holy Spirit:<br /><br />Acts 8:18-19 - "And when Simon SAW that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, 'Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost'." <br /><br />What Simon "SAW" was what had become accepted as the physical proof and evidence that an individual had received the Holy Spirit.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-20149720529415203362014-01-05T14:07:23.212-05:002014-01-05T14:07:23.212-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE WOOFENDEN:
As I u...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE WOOFENDEN:<br /><br />As I understand it, only one branch of the Pentecostal Church, commonly known as "Oneness Pentecostals," have rejected the Trinity of Persons and believe in God in One Person. I recall a figure of there being about 600,000 members of Oneness Pentecostal churches perhaps a decade ago--which dwarfs the organized Swedenborgian Church in numbers.<br /><br />I've read some of their doctrinal statements. They quote the same Bible passages Swedenborg did to show that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One God. However, they do veer away from Swedenborg on many other points of doctrine relating to salvation.<br /><br />A few of their ministers actually do read Swedenborg.<br /><br />Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, I was in touch with three Pentecostal ministers in the U.S. and Canada who were avid Swedenborg readers. They preached Swedenborg's ideas to their congregations--who ate it up! However, these ministers mostly did not mention their source in Swedenborg to their church leaders or to their congregations because it could have endangered their ministry. So they quietly preached Swedenborg to their spiritually thirsty congregations.<br /><br />Unfortunately, for most people out there Swedenborg is still a hidden current affecting lives and changing society without the beneficiaries being aware of the source.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-9533738465798379112014-01-05T14:06:20.847-05:002014-01-05T14:06:20.847-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
Hello Ray -...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br /> <br />Hello Ray -<br />Yes, the Pentecostal church is correct. What the Pentecostal church arrived at independently from scripture in the 20th century, was shown in detail in visions to Emanuel Swedenborg in the 18th century. And the funny thing is, the Pentecostal church is unaware of Swedenborg and the Swedenborgian church is unaware of the Pentecostals. Why that is, I have no idea. Pentecostal theologians sometimes struggle with some definitions, so for that, I would recommend Swedenborg's work, "True Christian Religion," and for a deeper dive of the inner psychology and spiritual development of how Jesus progressed from human to Divine, see "Heavenly Arcana" (or Arcana Coelestia). Both I published together in an e-book, "The Divine Revelation of the New Jerusalem." The revelations are deep, and you will not be able to absorb them in a lifetime of study.<br /><br />So, that said, the unfortunate thing is that the Pentecostal church is so deeply focused on speaking in tongues, it has really turned a lot of people off on their church. Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift, and does not show up that often. A minister I knew who did missionary work in Indonesia, once saw a young Christian woman praying in English. She did not know the English language - she was essentially speaking in a foreign language. Unfortunately, "speaking in tongues" for many in the Pentecostal church means jumping up and spouting out blabber in order to get attention. This is not correct - speaking in tongues is speaking in an actual known language, often as testimony in situations where people do not know the language. Swedenborg warns not to confuse the Holy Spirit with emotionalism, or what he called "enthusiasm." It is ephemeral and does not last. Doctrines that open the mind and changing one's life are more important than miracles. If you want to learn more about speaking in tongues, how it is possible, there are explanations by Swedenborg for this spiritual phenomenon. In most cases, however, angelic spirits will speak to man using the person's own language, as they can immediately know a person's language by drawing it out of their memory.<br /><br />So my hope is, the Pentecostal church will concentrate on more important things: the doctrine of One God in One Person, Jesus Christ, and not get focused on a gift in order to show others. It does happen, but it is important not to subvert it to gain attention. I saw one Pentecostal church get emptied out - with little or no attendance - from one person abusing it (it was no language whatsoever) and should have in fact been reprimanded. When one pretends like that one profanes what is holy. Doctrines that open the mind to better understanding, and reforming one's life, are the higher priority. So, hope you are not offended, this is my own opinion, but I am greatly happy that the Pentecostal church is growing.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-37263535294905920832014-01-05T14:05:00.862-05:002014-01-05T14:05:00.862-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:
I agree i...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:<br /><br /> <br />I agree in many respects. The Apostolic Pentecostal church is a restoration of core 1st century Christian beliefs. ONE omnipresent, omnipotent and eternal God named YESHUA or "JESUS" in english who became man by HIS power and omnipresent Spirit over 2,000 years ago. The ONE omnipresence of GOD not three. UPCI.ORG :)Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-64620101092908441122014-01-05T14:02:35.157-05:002014-01-05T14:02:35.157-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:
http://www....RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:<br /><br />http://www.apostolic-voice.org/tracts/the-truth-about-speaking-in-tonguesDoug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-77120949751623246012014-01-05T14:01:32.702-05:002014-01-05T14:01:32.702-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY:
I actually do ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY:<br /><br /> <br />I actually do speak in tongues although mostly in private and hardly for show, even though there may be some that could. In the church that i attend they teach that speaking in tongues is the VISIBLE EVIDENCE that one has been filled and continues to be filled with the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ. As everything spiritual and eternal eventually gains a material manifestation in time and space. Concerning the man you talked about i will look him up he sounds interesting, so thanks for the heads up. Here is a study on what the doctrine that says that "pentecostal tongues" or "Christian glossalilia" is the evidence of the Holy Spirit:<br /><br />Acts 8:18-19 - "And when Simon SAW that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, 'Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost'." <br /><br />What Simon "SAW" was what had become accepted as the physical proof and evidence that an individual had received the Holy Spirit.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-11638765210618572432014-01-05T14:00:38.860-05:002014-01-05T14:00:38.860-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
Hello Ray. ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br /> <br />Hello Ray. If you want to gain a better understanding of the ancient gift of speaking in tongues, see the following video, where people are able to speak in an actual foreign language. This from Dr. Brian L. Weiss, M.D:<br /><br />http://youtu.be/QulmE6OwZXc<br /><br />It is not so well known, but some researchers know about it. It is called Xenoglossy. It shows that yes, there is life after death, and yes, there is a constant interaction between our physical and spiritual world.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-39934443626641063462014-01-05T14:00:03.091-05:002014-01-05T14:00:03.091-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:
Speaking in...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM RAY HALL:<br /><br />Speaking in Tongues Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEcDoug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-83703496620018555692014-01-05T13:56:47.595-05:002014-01-05T13:56:47.595-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
I was just lo...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br />I was just looking through these comments to find this link on the apostle Paul - thanks, I will browse through it. I may have to again talk about the Protestant error in theology, they ever maintain that as their central doctrine. Paul should not be ignored: although Swedenborg said his writings were not Divinely inspired, he did say in his private diary that they were "Divinely influenced" - just not with a word for word correspondence. It was necessary to have those doctrines spelled out in a simple manner. A certain minister is constantly preaching about about "grace" how it is "given freely". In other words, it does not matter what you do. <br /><br />Very few ever question their religion, luckily at a young age I did. Did not realize you came from such a long tradition of Swedenborgians. I have not read about John Clowe's discovery of Swedenborg. For me, it was a long road in darkness before the light of truth dissipated it. Once I started to read Swedenborg, I realized that he wrote in Neo-Latin, and at that point I recalled a dream I had when I was a child. It was so significant I wrote it down the next day, and still have it somewhere. I was walking along, and then I saw this full length mirror. I looked at the mirror, and I was dressed like a monk in medieval times. Then this booming voice out of nowhere said, "WELCOME MY CHILD, TO THE MIRROR OF TRUTH." The mirror began to shimmer, and became like liquid. I then walked right through the mirror, like a doorway or portal (sort of like the movie StarGate). On the other side of the mirror, was this huge enclosed labyrinth, hidden behind it in another dimension I guess. There were several passageways, turning this way and that, and it was endless. And on the walls of the labyrinth there was writing - I looked at the writing, and I saw endless passages written on the wall in Latin. I realized I had uncovered some sort of secret. I began to try and read the Latin, and then I awoke. Very frustrating dream! I was wondering what was written in there. Years later, after I discovered Swedenborg, and was looking up his books, I said to myself, did this guy ever stop writing in Latin? It was then, to my shock, that I remembered the dream, and said to myself, this must be it. Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-33547125735035102602014-01-05T13:55:47.966-05:002014-01-05T13:55:47.966-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:
Yes, I was very ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br />Yes, I was very lucky to grow up in the Swedenborgian Church--even if I now believe that the institutional New Church will not be the torch that carries genuine Christianity to the masses--as will eventually happen under God's providence.<br /><br />However, one thing I will never experience--as you did, and as did others who discovered Swedenborg in adulthood--is having that tremendous beam of light shine out into the former darkness. I have heard the stories of many people who spent years searching for truth, and of the tremendous sense of discovery and blessing that came to them when they finally discovered Swedenborg.<br /><br />Have you read the story of the Rev. John Clowes's discovery of Swedenborg? It's powerful and inspiring.<br /><br />I'll never have that experience, because Swedenborg's teachings were always my guide and companion in life. I received them "with my mother's milk." (My mother was an ardent "cradle Swedenborgian" herself. She spent many years teaching Sunday School, creating a set of arts and crafts activities to go with the Sunday School notes written by her mother, Anita S. Dole, now published by the Swedenborg Foundation as the six volume "Bible Study Notes," and publishing a monthly Sunday School newsletter, "Five Smooth Stones," that was distributed to Swedenborgian Sunday Schools and children across the U.S. and Canada. Her father and grandfather were Swedenborgian ministers. And my father was a Swedenborgian minister. His father was a Swedenborgian Sunday School Superintendent in Detroit. Can you say "dyed in the wool"?)<br /><br />I would still choose to grow up with Swedenborg's teachings rather than having to spend years seeking it in the darkness. But sometimes I have just a tinge of jealousy for those who made that brilliant discovery and had their lives transformed from darkness to light.<br /><br />You do therefore have at least one amazing experience that I will never have!Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-39346122230314272512014-01-05T13:54:39.113-05:002014-01-05T13:54:39.113-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:
Thanks for your ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br />Thanks for your comments on my blog. I'm glad those two articles gave you food for thought. Here's another one you might want to read:<br /><br />"Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"<br />http://leewoof.org/2013/08/05/father-son-and-holy-spirit/<br /><br />This one deals more directly with the historical development of the idea of the Trinity of Persons, including glances at the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds. Nothing in-depth, but enough to give people the general idea of what happened, and where the Christian Church went wrong doctrinally.<br /><br />One thing I have only scant knowledge of is where Orthodox Christianity stands on many of these doctrinal points. They seem not to have veered quite as far away from the Biblical truth as Catholicism and Protestantism.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-30668741035634800122014-01-05T13:53:34.773-05:002014-01-05T13:53:34.773-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:
Yes, I consider ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br />Yes, I consider myself very lucky to have grown up with these teachings. With the mind I have, if I had not had teachings that made rational sense, I would very likely have ended out a skeptical agnostic or atheist.<br /><br />I therefore have great sympathy for those who do end out agnostic and atheist due to the irrational beliefs about God and spirit that are common in our culture and throughout the world. This is one of the reasons I am intent on spending the rest of my time here on earth doing my best to make Swedenborg a household name in the English-speaking world. Whether or not people accept Swedenborg's teachings, they should at least know of his existence and of the basics of what he taught. Without even a knowledge of rational and loving teachings about God, people do not even have a choice to embrace those beliefs.<br /><br />I, too, am puzzled by how little Swedenborg is still known. Yet the spiritual meaning of Revelation 12, and Swedenborg's commentary on it, does give some understanding of what is going on. There is great resistance from the previous church, which still continues in external form, and this makes it very difficult for many to either hear about or embrace the teachings of Swedenborg.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-2521676274287278332014-01-05T13:50:28.880-05:002014-01-05T13:50:28.880-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
Just saw your...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br />Just saw your other comments. If you grow up in the Swedenborgian church, you do not realize how lucky you are. Imagine seeking things and not finding any answer for many years. Then in college, I found True Christian Religion in the library, and I thought for sure Swedenborg was going to say something incorrect on the true nature of Jesus. But when I opened and read it, I was stunned. Hey, wait, he just solved the Trinity. Oh look, he explains how Jesus saved humanity, even those who did not know him (which happens to be very similar to the Orthodox view). Hey wait, everything is rational and logical now! I was totally surprised, and my thought was, this book is worth more to me than its weight in gold. My other surprise was: how in the world is this guy so ignored and unknown??? I am still puzzled by that.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-79689350279744478332014-01-05T13:49:08.335-05:002014-01-05T13:49:08.335-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:
Yes, I see th...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM MYSELF:<br /><br />Yes, I see that question come up a lot. Christians assume they are saved and others are not, which is very narrow minded. Those who do good by the truth that they know will go to heaven. But, before I read Swedenborg, it was easy to reach that conclusion from these passages:<br /><br />1. Servants who did not know of their master were punished less than those who did know (Luke 12:48). So with more knowledge comes more responsibility.<br />2. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were already in heaven before Christ (Matt. 22:32, Luke 16:19-31)<br />3. Jesus had no problem with those who did not follow him and yet were able to cast out demons (Mark 9:38-41)<br /><br />The last passage is quite revealing. I think Jesus' own apostles had a problem with that - it is only present in Mark, and you do not see it in any of the other gospels. However on the flip side, the New Church is not doing a good job getting the word out - or the information is just simply suppressed at this time in seminaries. Truth makes a difference. Jesus said you shall know the truth and it will set you free. The other way I say it, is truth is universal, but Jesus is that truth in human form.<br /><br />I will check out your blogs when I have more time, I am in the middle of translating the Psalms. Our English translations are very inconsistent.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-91905075167631576172014-01-05T13:47:22.042-05:002014-01-05T13:47:22.042-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:
Just one more ...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br /> <br />Just one more thing (for now):<br /><br />About my belief that people of all religions can be saved, one of the top posts on my blog (3rd highest hits all time) is this piece:<br /><br />"If there’s One God, Why All the Different Religions?"<br />http://leewoof.org/2012/11/05/if-theres-one-god-why-all-the-different-religions/<br /><br />Traditional Christians who stop by are often troubled by it. But for many open souls who come across it in their spiritual searches, it is a ray of light that makes their day!<br /><br />For me, it is a beautiful thing to be a Christian who believes that people of all religions can be saved. I can relax about the eternal fate of the billions of people in this world, while still putting my lamp on a lampstand, and building my city on a hill for all to see.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-88959821600339942862014-01-05T13:45:41.643-05:002014-01-05T13:45:41.643-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:
And yes, it is e...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br />And yes, it is easy to mis-read Paul when one approaches him from a faith alone perspective. Paul did heavily emphasize faith, in contrast to James and John, who were stronger on love and works. So it's not surprising that those who veer toward faith alone are strongly drawn to Paul, and tend to marginalize James and John.<br /><br />However, Paul does not actually teach faith alone, and you are quite right about the differing uses of the word "works" in Paul. In the places where he supposedly is saying that faith alone saves, he is actually saying that for those who believe in Jesus Christ, it is not necessary to follow the (ancient) Jewish Law of ritual and cultural behavior. This was a heavily debated point in the early Christian Church, which was initially formed of former Jews, but was quickly spreading into pagan areas during Paul's ministry. Because that issue has long since been resolved in Christianity, it's easy to read Paul out of context and not realize what he was talking about.<br /><br />Paul did NOT mean that it was no longer necessary to follow the Ten Commendments and the other laws of moral and ethical behavior. Jesus himself affirmed these multiple times as laws of life still fully in force (though not always in the literal interpretation that had been put on them).<br /><br />Paul also points out that if we take pride in our works and "boast" about them, they won't do us much good spiritually. This is the classic issue of "merit," which belongs to Christ alone. Many traditional Christians get tripped up on the idea that we cannot "merit" heaven by our works--which is just as true in genuine Christian theology as it is in Protestant theology. If we do good works, it should not be to buy our way into heaven, but out of obedience to God, understanding of what is right, and love for our fellow human beings. None of these has anything to do with deserving, or "meriting," heaven.<br /><br />Growing up, I didn't learn the Acts or the Epistles--which is, unfortunately, common among Swedenborgians. I just assumed that if I read them, I would find the passages that support the traditional Christian doctrines of the Trinity and of salvation by faith alone. I was quite surprised when I finally did read them, and they simply did not teach those things any more than the rest of the Bible did.<br /><br />One of the best resources in this regard is the classic Brighton Lectures by the Rev. Dr. Jonathan Bayley, originally delivered in England in the 1850s. If you (or anyone reading in) have not yet read them, I highly recommend them. Bayley was both brilliant and gracious in his exposition of New Church doctrine based on the entire Protestant Bible, including the Acts and the Epistles. The lectures were published in many editions under title, "Great Truths on Great Subjects." They are available from the usual online sources in facsimile reprint editions. I also made them available online at my old website at this link:<br /><br />http://egogahan.com/leewoof/lectures-bayley/Lectures-Bayley.htm<br /><br />The Q&A sessions at the end are priceless in themselves. Under heavy challenge by traditional Christians in his audience, he was, as I said, both brilliant and gracious in his responses and his exposition of New Church doctrine in comparison to traditional Christian doctrines often drawn from the passages quoted by his opponents.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-34004305803477345662014-01-05T13:42:37.079-05:002014-01-05T13:42:37.079-05:00RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:
About Jesus talk...RECOVERED LOST COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br />About Jesus talking to the Father, there is a critical piece missing in traditional Christian theology: Jesus actually DID have a dual nature when he was born: the finite human from Mary and the infinite divine from God ("the Father"). But by the time his life on earth was finished, he was fully one with the Father.<br /><br />During the course of his life on earth, Jesus' consciousness sometimes dwelt more in the human nature from Mary. In those times, he prayed to the Father as if to a separate being. Other times his consciousness dwelt more in the divine nature from within. In those times, he spoke of being one with the Father.<br /><br />During the course of his life, he gradually shed all of the finite humanity that had come from Mary, and replaced it with an infinite Divine Humanity that was from and one with "the Father," or his own inner divine self. Once he rose from death and "ascended to the Father," there was no longer a dual finite/infinite nature, but he was fully, infinitely divine and human at the same time, in a single divine being and consciousness.<br /><br />Without an understanding of this process during his life on earth, which Swedenborg calls "glorification," the Gospels can be quite confusing on the nature of Jesus (the Son) in relation to God (the Father). But once we grasp the doctrine of the glorification, it all falls beautifully into place, and the confusion is gone.<br /><br />I touch upon this briefly in the article I linked in my original comment.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9030257666913290314.post-9860614592531951232014-01-05T13:41:11.335-05:002014-01-05T13:41:11.335-05:00RECOVERED COMMENT FROM LEE:
I was born into a Swe...RECOVERED COMMENT FROM LEE:<br /><br />I was born into a Swedenborgian (New Church) family, going back several generations on both sides. Even so, in my late teenage years I did radically question the beliefs I grew up with, and considered the possibility that they might be false. I probably paid closer attention than most of my classmates in a philosophy and comparative religions class in my senior year of high school. I was most interested to determine whether there was some other belief out there--or non-belief--that might be better than what I'd grown up with.<br /><br />What ultimately kept me with the basic beliefs I'd grown up with was not only that they made more sense than anything else I came across, but also that they seemed to encompass more love and goodness both in the nature of God and in their acceptance of people of all faiths and religions as being equally God's children, with access to heaven and eternal life. In a sense, it was the fact that my birth religion did NOT claim exclusivity, but extended God's love to all people on earth, that kept me with it.<br /><br />Though my beliefs have softened quite a bit since my teenage and young adult years, when I tended to think I knew everything, I still have not found anything else that even comes close to being as satisfying as what I grew up with. Having said that, I've come to appreciate other religions, and even other non-religions, far more than I did as a youth.<br /><br />The farther I go along in life, the more I enjoy having a belief that is both detailed and specific on the one hand, and broad and inclusive on the other. It is a rare combination.Doug Webberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071107950046910342noreply@blogger.com